New Business Administration transfer agreement evidence of special relationship between Germanna, University of Mary Washington

The presidents of the University of Mary Washington and Germanna Community College signed a direct transfer agreement for Business Administration students Tuesday in a ceremony at UMW.

Dr. Lynne Richardson, dean of the College of Business at UMW, said: "This agreement says ... students who go to Germanna and want to study business will be able to transfer a little bit easier."

Germanna President David A. Sam took the opportunity to praise UMW President Rick Hurley, who will retire in June of 2016, for working to establish what he called “a model for relationships between universities and community colleges” that he believes will continue after both men are gone.

GCC's Dr. David Sam (right) praises UWM's Rick Hurley today.

“It's a pleasure to work with him,” Dr. Sam said. “We've had lunches pretty regularly in which we talked about the problems and opportunities ... How can we help students at Germanna not have what's called a ‘transfer bump?' How can we smooth things and make transfers more seamless? How can we work together to enable more students to graduate? How can we reach more first generation college students? And what can we do to support economic development and community development, some things together and some things separately? The bonus is we became friends and there's a trust that extends to the provost at UMW and our chief academic officer. We hope the people who follow Rick and myself carry on this model relationship.”

Hurley said: “I've enjoyed the partnership and the friendship. It's all about serving the community and the needs of our students.”

Students who graduate from Germanna with the AA&S degree in Business Administration, General Studies or Liberal Arts with at least a 3.0 grade point average on all college work, including courses taken at colleges other than GCC, and have completed the specific business course prerequisites with a 2.5 GPA in those five courses are guaranteed admission to the BS in Business Administration Program at UMW

GCC students who enroll in UMW’s bachelor of science in Business Administration program will be considered on the same basis as its own junior year students for admission to competitive programs, as well as for registration, financial aid, scholarships and student housing.

Germanna students who don’t meet all of the terms of the agreement may nonetheless be competitive applicants and are encouraged to apply through the regular transfer admissions process. 

UMW will guarantee the acceptance of 63 transferable credits (courses for transfer must be completed with a grade of “C” or higher. Completion of the approved associate degree through dual enrollment will not preclude the student from eligibility. In addition, credit for courses completed through International Baccalaureate, Advanced Placement, Cambridge, CLEP, and armed services experience will be accepted

Prof. Rich Gossweiler appreciation: 'How do you measure the lump in a student's throat?'

When Cory MacLauchlin began teaching at Germanna Community College, Prof. Rich Gossweiler told him his goal should be simple:

“‘How do you measure the lump in a student's throat?” Gossweiler asked him. “If we don’t make the students feel something, then we miss the point.”

“To me, that’s his legacy,” said MacLauchlin.

Judy Napier and Margaret Gossweiler
at celebration of Prof.Rich Gossweiler's life

 Gossweiler passed away on April 10 after 45 years of teaching in the Virginia Community College system, most of them at Germanna.

He had retired from teaching full time, but couldn’t stay away from GCC , its students and faculty and continued to teach part time.

He was at GCC’s Locust Grove Campus that day when he began to feel ill and went outside to rest on a bench. He collapsed moments later.  Germanna nursing professors who had come to love Gossweiler worked heroically to keep him alive till an ambulance arrived. He passed away that evening, with family --and Germanna faculty and staff  who considered him family-- at his side. He was 74.

“Rich Gossweiler was not only a great teacher of students, but someone who played a critical role in mentoring faculty and staff,” Germanna President David A. Sam said at a celebration of his life at GCC’s Daniel Technology Center in Culpeper on May 6.

.At a retirement event, Gossweiler  had urged faculty members to continue to “challenge the students … make them go further than they expected.”

Gossweiler also asked them to remember that “students are your friends."

Prof. Rich Gossweiler and Prof. Don Frank
at retirement event

“When we go through town, we always run into our students. The wonderful thing about community colleges is you see the results—you see [former] students. You make friends,” he said.

Many are passionate about teaching.  Gossweiler’s feelings went beyond that. He couldn’t contain the joy the profession brought him--and it was infectious.

“When he wasn’t smiling, he was roaring with laughter,” Sam said.

“He helped instill in me the passion I have today,” said Dr. Patti Lisk, dean of nursing at Germanna.

At the celebration of the late professor's life, a former student said, “As long as he taught, there’s a piece of Rich Gossweiler in every one of us.”

In a sense, we were all Rich Gossweiler’s students.

He left so many of us with lumps in our throats.

Great Expectations: 'If they can make it big, so can you'

Germanna Community College recognizes the strides being made by Great Expectations program students students during a GE Milestones: 

Recognizing and Celebrating Student Successes ceremony.Wednesday night. 

Great Expectations prepares foster care youth aging out of the system for the transition to college in part through mentoring.
“Germanna is a place where you can begin to live out a part of your dreams," GE Program Coordinator Jennifer Lawrence for the students . "Antwone Fisher, a former foster youth, said to himself, 'if they can make it big, so can I.' So, I want you to know as I have shared with you all over and over again. . . I am proud of you for all that you have overcome and if they can make it big, so can you.”

Antwan Perry addresses Germanna Great Expectations students.

Germanna bans vaping on campus

GERMANNA BANS VAPING ON CAMPUS

If you’ve got ‘em, don’t vape ‘em.

Germanna Community College has banned “vaping” on campus.

During a meeting at the college's Stafford Automotive Center, GCC’s Local College Board voted Thursday evening to ban the use of electronic cigarettes in campus buildings and within 25 feet of entrances and exits.

Germanna President David A. Sam noted that many believe use of e-cigarettes to be healthier than tobacco, but there’s debate about whether it’s safe. Some say it's helped them quit smoking tobacco.

Dr. Jeanne Wesley, GCC’s Vice President for Workforce, told the board that there have been complaints about students vaping.

She didn’t speculate about safety, but said: “I can tell you one thing. They stink.”

A heating element powered by a battery allows e-cigarettes to atomize a flavored liquid solution that often includes nicotine, creating aerosol instead of smoke. 
According to Americans for Nonsmokers Rights, 587 U.S. campuses banned vaping as of Jan. 1.

Only e-cigarettes that are marketed for therapeutic purposes are regulated by the FDA. The agency has proposed a rule that would extend its authority to cover e-cigarettes. Congressional Republicans oppose the change.

The new Germanna ban also includes clove and herbal cigarettes. A ban on tobacco smoking at GCC had already been in effect.

Germanna president's new book raising funds for GCC Educational Foundation

Is there a gene for compassion? Or is it learned--developed by a series of experiences as we grow up?

It seems likely that both nature and nurture come into play.

Germanna Community College President Davis Sam’s “Memories in Clay, Dreams of Wolves,” is honest and powerful book that provides a compelling window into the development of the heart and mind of a man who has devoted his life to helping those unlucky through no fault of their own.

"Die when I may," Abraham Lincoln wrote to a friend, "I want it said of me by those who know me best that I always plucked a thistle and planted a flower when I thought a flower would grow."

"Memories in Clay, Dreams of Wolves"gathers semi-autobiographical poetry about a boyhood and adult life lived in conversation with nature. In this volume, Sam describes a life shaped by his youth in Pennsylvania and Michigan and his journey by thumb through the Pacific Northwest. The imprint of these experiences molds his ecological holism and sense of the holiness of the commonplace and of all life.

Profits from the sale of this book will be donated to the Germanna Community College Educational Foundation.

Sam has a reading and signing set for 5:30 p.m. on Sept. 2 at The Arts Center in Orange.

Sam was born and spent his childhood in McKeesport, Penn., a coal and steel suburb of Pittsburgh. His home at the end of 36th Street abutted a woods, and the games he played on that street and the time he spent in those woods all influenced his poetry as well as his sense of the holistic ecology of all things. His neighborhood was filled with immigrants and children of immigrants, and his grandparents themselves came from Poland and Syria.

In 1961, the family moved with his father's factory to Belleville, MI, a far suburb of Detroit. Small town life near a lake and the rural farm fields and woods within a short walk along the railroad tracks often appear in the imagery and biography of his verse.

A first-generation college student and graduate of Eastern Michigan University and Michigan State University, Sam has taught creative writing, English literature, and composition at EMU, Marygrove College, Oakland Community College, and Pensacola State College. He was partner/manager of Gondolier Music & Electronics from 1972-1985 in Belleville before moving into higher education as an administrator.

He and his his wife Linda live in Culpeper, still within sight of the eastern mountain chain. They have two children, Michelle and Ryan, and three grandchildren.

He has offices at Germanna’s original campus in Locust Grove and at GCC’s Fredericksburg Area Campus in Spotsyvania.

The book is on sale via Amazon.com, at The Griffin Bookstore & Coffee Bar in Fredericksburg and at the Germanna Bookstore.

Sales of Germanna President Sam's new book to benefit GCC Educational Foundation

Sales of Germanna Community College President David A. Sam's new semi-autobiographical book of poetry, “Memories in Clay, Dreams of Wolves," go to the GCC Educational Foundation. The book officially launches this Sunday, June 15. It's on prelease sale now on Amazon.com.

It’s Dr. Sam's first full-length collection of poetry.

He has readings and signings set for 2 p.m. next Sunday, June 22 at The Griffin Bookstore and Coffee Bar in downtown Fredericksburg and for 7:30 p.m. Friday, July 11 at The Raven's Nest Coffee House in downtown Culpeper.

 Here’s what two respected poets have to say about “Memories in Clay, Dreams of Wolves”:

 “David Sam is a poet of deep identity with the natural world. In these intimate narratives of discovery and awe, the poems speak often with an almost breathless urgency, reminding us of the inexhaustible life within life, testaments to a unique sensitivity, in a boy and then a man. In journeys both actual and metaphorical, the self is not different than rivers or sunrise. ‘I am made of water and wild air,’ one poem says.  The lucky reader breathes deeply.”

- Allan Peterson, author of “Fragile Acts” and “All the Lavish in Common”

 

“David Anthony Sam’s poems are literally rooted in the earth, seeded in the rich, dark soil.  Whether he’s writing about childhood or the rivers of Pennsylvania, these poems are filled with fields, mountains, lakes, snow and stars; they remind us that human life is found in the morning air, in the golden rays of the rising sun, in a bird’s call as dusk arrives.  Memories in Clay, Dreams of Wolves is an impressive book that will transport you into the natural world where, as Sam writes, you will become ‘forgetful and human again.’”

- David James, author of “She Dances Like Mussolini,” winner of the 2010 Next Generation Indie book award in poetry

As Culpeper drops pounds, GCC gains support for its nursing program

When Culpeper's Drop It! The Healthy Living and Weight Loss Challenge 2013 wrapped up Thursday it had produced a total of over $300,000 in donations to Germanna's Nursing and Health Technologies programs since the annual event began in 2010, according to GCC Educational Foundation Director Mike Catell.

Joe and Linda Daniel and the Culpeper Regional Health System have donated funds toward Germanna’s nursing and health programs since the beginning.

Joe Daniel is president at Culpeper Wood Preservers and a member of the GCC Educational Foundation Board. The couple donates $20 to Germanna for each pound lost. This year's total of 2,502 pounds lost works out to a $50,040 donation. CRHS donates $30 a pound to health care programs. Some of that $30 has gone to Germanna in the past. No announcement has been made about that yet for this year.

During a press conference at Powell Wellness Center, Joe Daniel explained why he and his wife Linda donated $20 to Germanna's Nursing and Health Technologies program for approximately 12,000 pounds lost through Drop It! over the years. "The goal of this program is to improve the health of the whole community," Joe Daniel said. "The other thing is education. ... "You talk to any hospital executive or administrator and they'll tell you nurses are the lifeblood of their hospitals… It’s a great partnership. The bottom line is it’s about health, education and jobs.”

The program, Daniel noted, has enabled Germanna: “to expand its nursing program—to double the number of folks who are getting nursing or nursing-related education. And this has a huge, long-run impact on the community. Let’s say we graduated 50 people today. What’s the average age? Thirty. So they have 30, 35 years to work. That’s 1,500 work years. Multiply that by the number of patients they’re going to see--many tens of thousands of people are impacted by that educational experience. And next year we’re going to do the same thing. And the next the same time.”

He said there’s no way to measure the long-term impact. .

“When you do the return on investment, “ he said. “When you see the work people are going to have-- the improvement in health, the improvement in their lives, I’ll tell you what, I’m happy to invest in it and I think it’s one of the best investments Linda and I have ever made.”

Linda Daniel said: "I worked in the health profession for almost 40 years. I think health is so essential to keeping your whole mental outlook and your emotional outlook as well as your physical well being and we all want to get older and better and stay healthy and the best way to do it is to move and keep involved in a program like this." Germanna President David A. Sam said the college is grateful.

“We want to thank the Daniels for their long term support for Germanna in many ways, especially the nursing program and health care programs,” Dr. Sam said. “Thanks in large part to them, Germanna now graduates two RN classes a year in December and in May.

“The support you give us is instrumental in terms of scholarships,” Dr. Sam said. He said the Daniels’ generosity has made it possible to buy equipment, including high-tech human simulators used in Germanna’s Virtual Hospital.

“We also deeply appreciate the long partnership with Culpeper Regional Hospital and Culpeper Regional Health Care System.They provide clinical instruction, clinical sites. They’ve contributed $1 milllion over the years to our programs.” .

Robert Lewis: Turning fear of failure into drive to succeed

Robert Lewis

  Robert Lewis says he’s been around “a lot of knuckleheads getting into trouble.” 

  He made his own focus working and going to church.

  But the man known to friends as Rob Lew wanted to make a difference, and he realized that to do that, he’d need to go to college, got a federal grant and enrolled at Germanna Community College last fall.

   “It’s a blessing to me to be able to be here and be able to get my education and I’m going to try to make the best of it,” the 26-year-old Chancellor High School graduate says.

      He recently attended a student leadership conference in Roanoke, where he was encouraged to reach out to faculty members.

  “I’ve begun to build relationships with my instructors,” Robert said. “I’ve spoken to students at four-year colleges and lot say it’s difficult to do that. Community college students really have an advantage with their professors. They want the best for you. Talk with them, because they'll really support you.”

   At the conference, Robert heard a speaker talk about facing one’s fears.

     “Whatever it is holding you back, just face it," he says he was told. 
  "The fear varies from person to person.”

   What’s his biggest fear?

   “I guess I fear failure,” he said. "I’d hate to invest so much time and energy in my education and not come out above average. I want to excel.”

  Students were encouraged to become more involved. He has.

   Last week he was part of a student delegation from Germanna lobby legislators to keep higher education affordable and accessible on Every Day is Community College Day at the General Assembly.

Robert Lewis, left, in a light moment with other Germanna student delegates
lobby legislators at the General Assembly.

   Robert has also gotten involved as president of the Germanna Poetry Club.

    “One of the things I’ve noticed is that a lot of students are going through the motions,” he said. “They don’t take the time to become involved and engaged. If you slow down and keep your eyes and ears open a lot of doors will open for you, a lot of opportunities for really great things. Too many people pass those opportunities by.”

    He says his vision for the poetry club “is to create an atmosphere where students can come and express themselves. I want them to be able to network so they can collaborate. Music and poetry provide the opportunity for them to come and express themselves and build themselves up and share their gifts. Combining music and poetry has been a great way of dealing with things, with stress--a good way to release your feelings.”

    When he started at Germanna last fall he was planning to go into psychology. He’s had a change of heart. Now he wants some kind of career in communications, he says. He plans to transfer to Virginia Commonwealth University. 

 “Psychology is helping one person at a time. In communications, I can take what I’ve learned in psychology, public service and community service and apply it. I’m not sure what I want to do, but I want to help people on a big scale.”

Germanna President David A. Sam with students Theo Felder and
Robert Lewis during visit to state legislators last week.

   

  He already volunteers with the Red Cross and RCASA. He’s a mentor and a Big Brother.

   Robert said Germanna psychology Prof. Gayle Wolfe has made a difference in his life and those of other students. 

  “She’s really paved the way for people to become successful,” he said. “She’s great.”

Germanna student Robert Lewis takes a photo with
 his phone during legislative visit last week.

   

Germanna Today looks at college's Distance Learning Program

Germanna Community College President David A. Sam and Communications and American Sign Language Chair Aracelli Palomono co-host a Germanna Today segment on the college's Distance Learning Program. Instructional Designer Julie Mersiowsky, Prof. Cheryl Huff and faculty member Shashuna Gray are the guests.
 CLICK HERE to watch.

VIDEO: Signing of Germanna-UMW agreements a "win-win." Here's what they mean for students.

Germanna Community College President David A. Sam and University of Mary Washington President Richard V. Hurley have developed a close working relationship that's paying off for area students.  Watch Patch.com video by Dan Telvock above of them talking about that relationship and signing historic agreements today that will make degrees more accessible and affordable. MORE   
And read today's Fredericksburg.com report by Pam Gould here on what those agreements will mean to students.
  
For more, go to www.germanna.edu.

GCC, UMW agreements make degrees more affordable, accessible

Review  co-enrollment agreement and the direct transfer agreement.

By PAMELA GOULD
The Free Lance-Star
Germanna Community College students who meet eligibility requirements can soon begin taking courses at the University of Mary Washington.
 UMW President Rick Hurley and Germanna President David Sam will  formalize the agreement next Wednesday in George Washington Hall on the UMW campus in Fredericksburg.
 The presidents are also expected to sign an agreement that will make it easier for Germanna students to transfer into UMW’s Bachelor of Liberal Studies program.
 The agreements resulted from ongoing dialogue between Hurley and Sam, who said that more Germanna students transfer to UMW than to any other four-year institution.
 “We are delighted to partner with Germanna to make these programs available to qualified community college students,” Hurley said in a prepared statement.
 Sam said the agreements strengthen the partnership between the two colleges and benefit students academically and financially.
 Germanna students who have completed at least 15 credit hours of coursework and have earned a minimum 3.25 grade-point average will be eligible to take up to five classes at UMW under the “co-enrollment” agreement.
 Students will pay Germanna tuition rates for the UMW courses, and those credits will count toward the associate degree if the students earn a C or higher, Sam said.

MORE

We're going to need more skilled workers soon--and Germanna Community College is making quality education and training affordable

Orange County students in a Germanna Licensed Practical Nursing class at Eastern View High in Culpeper. By the time they graduate from high school, they are prepared to be an LPN. Health care is one field with great demand for skilled workers.

BY HOWARD OWEN

The Free Lance-Star

It might not look like it now, with unemployment over 8 percent, but by the end of the decade, a major issue facing the United States could be a scarcity of qualified workers. Higher education in general and community colleges in particular can play a big role in reversing that trend.

That was the message sent recently by the Committee for Economic Development, a nonpartisan business group, in a teleconference and accompanying policy statement.

“One of the most important needs the country has,” said CED president Charles Kolb, “is to enhance the performance of the post-secondary education sector.”

The CED is encouraging businesses and colleges to work together to ensure that students are getting to colleges and that colleges are providing what they need to compete in a global market.

“We want to make sure that post-secondary education is ready for them,” said Marilyn Reznick, executive director of education leadership for AT&T. She said the CED is calling on “business, educational and policy leaders to be ready for lower-income, first-generation and non-traditional students.”

The CED wants to focus mostly on “broad-access” institutions—the less-selective and less-expensive public and private colleges and universities, the community and technical colleges and for-profit colleges.

Those, the CED believes, “are the only realistic options to expand capacity sufficiently to educate the large numbers of people who need skills for success in the workforce of the future.”

A message board is set to welcome students to Germanna's new Science & Engineering Building, set to open this month, with a ribbon cutting at 1 p.m. on Friday, May 11 at the Fredericksburg Area Campus in Massaponax. The high-tech building itself will be a teaching tool to prepare them for careers in those fields..

VIRGINIA PROGRAM CITED

Virginia’s higher education system was highlighted in the report as a leader in trying to reach those goals.

The state’s Achieve 2015 program was one of the efforts that drew attention. It is a six-year strategic plan for the state’s community colleges that aims for a 50 percent increase in students either completing a degree, transferring to a four-year school or earning a workforce credential by 2015, with a target of 75 percent for traditionally underrepresented students.

To meet the Achieve 15 goals, Germanna Community College President David A. Sam says GCC has “established a number of initiatives.

“One is to focus like a laser on what helps students learn and succeed, and continuously improve teaching and support services. Another is to better reach out to those who are in danger of being left behind, offering programs and services that fulfill the promise of affordable access to post-secondary education and training. We are also developing partnerships and alternative resources to better enable the college to achieve its mission.”

After being unable to complete high school, Terra Painter of Madison entered GCC's Middle College, which prepares students to pass the GED and be prepared to enter a degree program at a community college or four-year school.

...KEEPING COSTS DOWN

One of the largest issues the CED is seeking to address is college costs. Between 1982 and 2011, while the consumer price index went up 125 percent, college tuition and fees rose 570 percent. Between 1999–2000 and 2007–08, college costs as a percentage of median family income soared. In the middle income quintile, it rose from 18 percent to 25 percent. For the poorest one-fifth, it went from 39 percent to 55 percent. Total college loan debt is now over $1 trillion.

(One goal of Virginia’s Achieve 2015 plan is to keep tuition and fees at less than half the cost of attending the state’s public four-year schools, and to increase the number of students receiving financial assistance and scholarships by 36,000.)

The rising cost helps explain why younger Americans are falling behind the rest of the world in education.

In the last half of the 20th century, the United States led the world in proportion of its working-age population getting education beyond the high school level.

The U.S. is still near the top when you include all workers 25–64. When only younger adults are counted, though, it’s another story. In 2009, we ranked 15th in the world in percentage of workers 25–34 achieving an associate degree or higher.

Combine that fact with the baby boomer retirement tsunami that’s just beginning, and you get back to that anticipated shortage of workers in the near future. It’s estimated that we will have a 1.3 million deficit in college graduates by 2020, even if all states step up their games to the level of the highest-performing states.

Rocio Fernandez says Germanna's affordability made it possible for her to study engineering, a field in which America needs more graduates to stay competitive with emerging economic powers including China and India.

The CED is urging businesspeople to get more involved in their states’ college educational systems, to ensure that useful education is made available to as many as possible and as affordably as possible. The United States, the policy statement notes, “needs a well-educated workforce to innovate and move the economy forward.”

Dr. Sam at GCC agrees:

“Germanna and other community colleges must play a key role in Virginia’s—and America’s—competitiveness by pivoting quickly to educate and train people as the economy changes.”

GCC President Sam said: “In some cases, we must prepare people for jobs that didn’t even exist a few years ago or for occupations yet to be invented. To accomplish this, Germanna seeks to understand and even anticipate local business needs, and thus help close the ’skills gap,’ where jobs go unfilled because people aren’t trained to do them." MORE

GCC student John W. Tyler won a national science innovation award last year while undergoing treatment for Lymphoma. Doctors have told him he's beaten the disease.

Couple goes from living in their car to finding themselves on the road to success at Germanna

Germanna Community College students Brian and Kimberlie Morris (above) were living in their car, wondering how they were going to find their way out of a seemingly bottomless pit of despair.
"Seven or eight years ago, my husband and I were actually homeless," Kimberlie said. "Going from figuring out how to pick ourselves up to be making the grades that I'm making--it's very much not where I thought I'd be at this point."
The 33-year-old is on the President's List and joining the college's chapter of the Phi Theta Kappa international honorary society. She's on course to graduate with an associate's degree in business administration in December 2013.
"She actually inspired me to go back to school," her husband Brian said. "This is my first semester. To go from living in our car to this..."
"It was a pipe dream," Kimberlie said, finishing his sentence.
"It was less than that--it was a puff of smoke," Brian, who just turned 40, said. "When we were homeless, we were more concerned about living from day to day, trying to get back on our feet. Once we did, that pipe dream became a reality." The couple lives in Spotsylvania County.
Neither of Kimberlie's parents finished high school.
The Morrises said things turned around when someone was willing to rent them an apartment and allowed them to pay the deposit over time. Brian found a job and they were on their way. "You don't have a phone number," she said. "You don't have a permanent address. How do you find a job when you don't have those things?"

Having been through that, they now try to help others whenever they can, even though they have little money.
Because someone gave them a chance, she said, "It's been a complete, 360-degree turnaround. We didn't want a handout, we wanted a hand up. If we can do that for someone else, fantastic."

Kimberlie applied to Germanna, with support from the GCC Educational Foundation. "I thought, life starts over," she said. "Things happen and you can actually go. This time I'm just going to put my foot down and see what happens. To have my dad understand and say,'You went beyond what I though you could accomplish...' "
After a stint in the military, Brian also began taking classes at GCC.
"Every time I go to class, I'm early," Kimberly said. "Every time I sit down in my chair in class, I appreciate my professor's time. As soon as I get home, I do my homework. Maybe if younger students understood that... Every time I see a kid who's younger than me miss a class, I just see dollar signs. I think, 'You're just throwing your education down the toilet bowl.' Not that you don't have reasons to miss class. But it's just that I think I respect it more, having not gone directly from high school to college.
"Now I'm a college student my father can brag about."